Rover 200 & 400 Owners Club

Hello all- first thanks for all the recent help re my 420 R8...

Now I’m afraid I’m back for some more!

Well I guess I know why the headlining was a little “spotty” and baggy ( but nothing 50 drawing pins couldn’t address, for now) and why She was getting a little steamed up inside overnight whilst the 216’s remained clear...She has naturally been nicknamed “Moulder”...

I discovered that water is apparently getting in at the bottom of the drivers side windscreen pillar, dripping from the bottom of the dash underside by the fuse box right side edge of the box cover, (gulp) and finally pooling on the rubber over mat, close to the wheel arch bulge.

Of course lifting the mat reveals the carpet is rather soggy...

There’s no obvious blockage in the drains by the bulkhead in the engine bay, the outer windscreen seal appears tight, and there’s no delamination of the screen at all, that from past experience ( on a Mondeo) did indicate a leak.

This afternoon between downpours, I used a length of net curtain spring into both front sunroof drains, they seem clear, and the s/roof seal seems ok, I’ve given it a good clean, and some silicone spray applied with a clean rag. They was a little water sitting inside the sunroof aperture, between the drains.All around the windscreen seal inside and the s/roof seems dry.

My only other suspicion is the ariel- only because it only extends out by the final inner length, it was jammed that way when I bought Her-the seal on the plastic mount looks ok, though when we get a bit of dry weather I’ll unscrew and use some sealant under the (cleaned) original seal. Could water be getting down past the stuck part- though that seems a long shot, considering
the small entry point.
I gave Her a good 45 mile run with the heater blasting ( blimey it’s good) to start the drying process, and the old newspaper trick in the f/well tonite too.
Question is ( at last!) is have I missed anything obvious - or not, to check?

Ta in hope, Mark

It's a de-bonded windscreen 99.999% of the time. Believe it or not (99.999% of people don't want to believe it).

I've said it bluntly as people go to all sorts of lengths to get to the bottom of an apparent sunroof leak, drain blockage, etc. Aside from the 0.001% of cases where the undertray has rusted through - and there's been one on here recently, it's all a waste of time looking for those types of things. Some people do more damage rodding the drains as they "turn a corner" on their way down to the outlets, so a stiff rod will puncture a hole at the elbow.

Maybe it's because a blockage is something people know they can fix themselves, but a de-bonded windscreen requires money to be handed over... who knows. Maybe it's because the leak "looks" like it's coming from a pillar with water dripping from high-up at the sides of the dash, etc. All those symptoms are there to fool you. If the undertray on the sunroof is intact and the drain pipes are intact too, it's most likely a screen de-bond.

A spotty headlining is just damp and mildew - the bagginess is just because the scrim foam has failed and the whole thing needs to be replaced either with about £50 of materials and about a day's worth of labour all told, or by a professional for anything from £400 to £1000.

If there were heavy damp or wet patches on the headlining, I'd say check the integrity of the under-tray and drainage pipes at roof level - no further. But I really don't think this is the case with your problem.

I can keep saying it... the R8 has 4 (FOUR) sunroof drains, so for a blockage to be a problem it would have to be in all 4 pipes if the car was parked on level-ish ground, as even if 3 of the 4 pipes were blocked the fourth would still function before the tray overflowed. The 4 drains are designed to deal with parking on a hill with adverse camber - which causes the rain water to run towards a specific corner of the tray, hence the need for a drain on all 4 corners. But if the car is parked level-ish, then there is 4-to-1 diversity ensuring the sunroof should never leak - EVER.

Here endeth the lesson. I apologise in advance for my curtness and any offence caused.

Believe it or not, there is at least one more person who feels as strongly about this as me. But I speak from experience. It wasn't until a nice AA man (back when AA owned their own windscreen fitting service) pointed out that he'd found 7 to 8 inches of my windscreen not bonded at the top edge (during a new windscreen replacement) that a light suddenly came on. I'd tried all sorts, including going under the plenum grille looking for water. I was convinced it was coming from there because my car actually had a water feature - no signs of water ingress until I turned a corner, then it trickled down into the passenger footwell. All those wasted hours disassembling the car investigating a new theory of think of what might be causing it... and it's the obvious one.

Windscreens on 30 year old R8s do seem to have a tendency to de-bond. If you think about it, many cars before the R8 were a rubber fit so de-bonding with age isn't something a lot of people are mindful of. It's true though - and something people should bear in mind for any "old modern" car. The R8 puts the longevity of bonded windscreens in the spotlight due to its age. That's all there is to it. No doubt other "old modern" cars with bonded windscreens suffer the same problem. It could also be caused by window fitters trying to save on sealant of course... or just some people in the trade being incompetent... or malicious...

Hi Johnny-No offence taken!

Thanks for your rapid ( and detailed reply)- I’m getting a quote from National windscreens tomorrow, it’s likely to be a replacement as there’s a decent “bullseye” chip in the passenger side and I don’t think the screen will come out without cracking... it looks like it’s the original with the blue sun shaded area on top.

I had them replace my 820 screen last year when some little sh@t scratched it all over when I left Her overnight at my regular MOT garage. They did a really good job- the fitter was so pleased to do a what’s become a pretty rare car that it took pics and put it on their forum!

I’ll put on here how much it’ll cost. Meantime I’m going to be putting a car cap on Her, so She can get dried out and stay dry (er)...

I had a similar problem on my 75 when it was 15 years old so I believe it is common to many cars as they get older.

What about the plastic black trim either side?

thought this is a nightmare to remove

It's a good thing I spotted this thread!
Vincent has water in the foot well and my first thought was where the hell could that be coming from?!
Thanks for the heads up about this issue Johnny

Did a bit of digging and found out Vincent has had a bit of a bump (probably why the previous owner decided to give up driving) I found the receipt for the work, front drivers wing and door, front bumper too. No mention of the windscreen though
Perhaps this wont help with this de-bonding issue?
Cant wait to get the car to find out!

It's a good thing I spotted this thread!
Vincent has water in the foot well and my first thought was where the hell could that be coming from?!
Thanks for the heads up about this issue Johnny

Did a bit of digging and found out Vincent has had a bit of a bump (probably why the previous owner decided to give up driving) I found the receipt for the work, front drivers wing and door, front bumper too. No mention of the windscreen though
Perhaps this wont help with this de-bonding issue?
Cant wait to get the car to find out!

Well- bit the bullet and had a new screen last Monday- £75.00 excess, and with the proper blue tint line at the top...took Her to Croydon to have it done inside.

The fitter wasn't exactly a happy bunny though- it was obvious he didn't really want to do an 'old' car and insisted that he repair the chip only, 'cos the car was bound to be 'rusty or rotten all around the screen 'cos its old'.

Now the 420 isn't concurs, but for a 29 year old - just went through an MOT with just a rear caliper replacement needed. She's in pretty good nick with one little rust bubble on a rear arch and a tiny one at he very top of the windscreen, Her paints good too and there was no mention of ANY notable corrosion on the MOT. So I just kept a fixed grin on and insisted he do it...He did a decent job to be fair, though He did moan again on my return to collect, that 'cos its old it'll be a case of WHEN not IF it starts to leak- and you'll have to pull the screen out again' etc etc.

I thanked Him for His work, but did advise He have a little more confidence in His skills...amuses me how some react if you drive something a bit different...
Anyways I don't care, the leaks seemed to have stopped and She bin a dryin' out nicely, so I'll be pulling the old failing headlining and replacing it with the new one soon.

I found dampness under the drivers side carpet about a month ago but no water.
Im hoping this is the residue of a poor screen seal as well.
Since the screen was replaced when I had all the repair work on the bottom of the A pillar in October Im hoping that any leak that I might of had has now been fixed
Unfortunately the cool weather hasn’t helped the drying process but its getting there.
My only other concern was they had damaged the drain pipe from the sun roof when they did the welding to the A pillar , but if I get no more water when I wash the car they should be ok.
But ill replace these anyway when I have the headlining done soon

I need help, my sunroof is leaking, where are the drainage holes for the sunroof it's a 92 416 gti